Good morning.  Today we have another episode of One Podcast to Start Your Day.  This time we invited Nancy Johnston (Independent consultant and former Vice President Students and International at Simon Fraser University), Andrew Ness (Dean, International at Humber College), and Michael Savage (Manager of International Markets and Mobility at Higher Education Strategy Associates) to talk about internationalization: from recruitment patterns, diversification, the international student experience, and how institutional, provincial, and federal policies affects all of the latter.  The full podcast can be found with a full transcript here. 

Thanks to our producers Tiffany MacLennan and Sam Pufek.

Alex: Say you had a member of your staff go off on around the world Ocean vacation maybe 10 years ago and they just got back. What do you tell them about what’s changed [in internationalization]?

Andrew: So, I think the first comment I would make is “we’re not in Kansas anymore, Toto”. What I mean by that is that we’ve really changed in three fundamental ways: in scale, in scope, and I would say in rigor. We’ve seen a massive shift in demand at Humber from primarily domestic enrollments to international students really filling what we would consider excess capacity… We’ve also seen the diversity grow at Humber, which has been interesting not only on our own campus but in terms of our outbound students where we have dozens of international students now looking for study abroad opportunities and looking for international work integrated learning, which is different than what we would’ve seen 10 years ago. And… the rigor comment that I made refers to the approach we’ve taken in terms of expectations for study abroad and academic partnerships. So, more expectations on preparation, on risk mitigation, outcomes, and provision of academic credit.

Nancy: I would agree and I really applaud and welcome the rigor that you referenced, Andrew, because it’s been something that’s been a little bit lacking as we’ve rushed to focus entirely on recruitment in the past. I’m very happy to see that we’re looking at the longer trajectory of international students when we bring them here or our own students when we send them internationally and really paying attention to the outcomes and the impacts and the learning piece which sometimes gets lost in the rush to bring people to campus or send them off campus.

Alex: Let me ask you the question about international students and how they’re treated once they’re at institutions because obviously this has been an issue recently.  How well do we meet international students’ needs and where could we be better?

Andrew: What we’re seeing in terms of that question of how they’re treated: the same challenges that are manifesting in domestic student population, whether it’s mental health challenges, or anxiety or financial pressures manifest in our international student population too. I do look at our retention and graduation rates as somewhat of a marker to say how are they being treated and how are they doing? We’re graduating international students at a rate; the most recent rate was 88.9%. Persistence rates, 91%. The students are successful. Yeah, those are high number numbers Alex and I’m not sure they’re exceptional. If we talk to colleagues, I think you’d see, so that’s positive. But that also says we have the right inputs in terms of academic qualifications and in terms of admissions. We’re also, Nancy intimated this as well, we’re monitoring data. And what I mean by that is we look at the international health insurance usage data to adjust coverage to better serve our international student population based on what their specific needs are.

Nancy: I think that’s a great point Andrew, but I mean it’s not all rosy either. These students [have] disproportionately high needs for counseling, mental health supports, financial aid. I mean the change in government to allow international to work more that’s recently occurred is I think a fantastic thing for that group of students. But, fortunately the service providers that many of us use have kind of ponied up for this and we now sign onto a mental health service that’s available 24/7, 7 of the languages most spoken at SFU have counselors are available, they’re language and culture relevant and sensitive, and they’re accessible from anywhere in the world. And that’s through our Canadian service provider of health insurance.

So, I think slowly this sector is responding, but I think it’s fair to say that international students still have, I think, much greater challenges. Yes, a student is a student and anything we do that helps an international student that’s struggling will help a domestic student that’s struggling. But they have some unique needs, not the least of which is around employability. Our BC WIL (work-integrated learning) group did a two year long research study on the ways in which employers view the Hiring of Students from international pathways…and there there’s a lot of conscious and unconscious bias out there still in that sector.

Alex: Let me turn the conversation a little bit to something that’s been under the microscope in a few communities across the country and that is how international students are affecting housing… it’s not just that it’s causing a heartache to students or international students specifically… but for local populations and particularly local low-income populations. What can institutions do about this kind of thing? How bad could this get? How bad could the loss of prestige or allies get and what can we do about it?

Michael: There’s no one silver bullet here. I think universities and colleges do have a responsibility to perhaps provide a little more on campus housing than they currently do. They should prioritize the expansion of that though that’s not likely to bring returns for a good long while. I think one of the things that we face is that this is an issue that’s much larger than just the sector. So, the sector can be an important voice in lobbying for more affordable housing. It should be a champion of more opportunities, more housing opportunities for everyone in this country here. But it alone is not going to be able to solve the problem. But if it’s seen as a helpful ally, I think that will go a long way.

Andrew: We are always looking for housing numbers for our students and we understand that housing costs is just going up and up… and where this question led me to is thinking how transparent and how deliberate are we saying to students “this is the amount it’s going to cost you to live here” and I come back at this a number of times, a number of conversations in Ontario over the past year to say we are going to be really forthright to say “this is what it’s going to cost and frankly do not come unless you are prepared to bear the cost. It’s not healthy for you.” Not that we don’t want willing students, but it’s expensive and we appreciate that its expensive and we want to be upfront with you to say this is what it will cost. To come in expecting that you’ll be able to make your tuition money in working off-campus is just not a reasonable approach. So, to my mind, that is, that’s an important component to this.

We hope you enjoy the second episode of One Podcast to Start Your Day. To hear the full conversation or read the entire transcripts, use the links above, and if you have topic or guest suggestions, let us know. Missed the first episode on Strategic Enrolment management? Find it here.